ASR has ended -- what's next?

I think you misunderstand what LPs are.

People who simply hold tokens aren’t actually in crypto really. They’re contributing zero to the eco.

We’re all staking CLOUD and that’s doing nothing practically useful. Like literally there is no value created from staking CLOUD.

If you hold an active position, as you do in an LP, then you’re an active participant.
That is taking on risk though. A lot of it.

That people get paid for that risk is sensible.

And creating a market that simplifies that risk/reward, as 3,3 does, is smart.

I do also like the GMX/GLP model better for sanctum (but i still haven’t figured a practical application of it, but I’m getting there!). GLP is a useful token, that is it represents an active position, INF is a decent like for like. The role of CLOUD is harder to pin down. In 3,3 the governance token is both emissions and emissions allocation and that works very well to simplify an otherwise complex series of interactions.

The questions for me around CLOUD in this context are:

  • Should CLOUD represent emissions?
  • what governance of emissions would be a value add to the current sanctum eco?
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I think the ASR should continue, but rewards need to be aligned with INF yield.

The system should remain the same, with locked liquidity, governance vote requirements, and other participation criteria, but adjusted for the higher risk profile.

Since ASR is more volatile than Solana and carries added commitment, it should match INF yield plus an additional 5% to compensate for the extra risk.

Rewards should not be continuously distributed. Instead, every three months there should be a checkpoint to verify that requirements are fulfilled, and eligible participants can then claim their rewards.

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Hey, could you please clarify what your expected rewards (%) are for ASR? I don’t fully understand the logic of matching INF yield +5%. If Solana introduces changes to the staking mechanism in the future (similar to the solana proposal we had SIMD-0228), the INF APR would also change. In that case, do you expect ASR rewards to decrease accordingly to stay aligned with INF, or did you use this formula just to estimate a certain target yield?

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Hey P-Bear, thanks for the question, let me clarify.

By “matching INF yield +5%,” I mean that Cloud should directly follow the INF yield. So if Solana changes the staking mechanism in the future and INF’s APR goes up or down, Cloud’s rewards would automatically adjust to stay aligned. It’s not about fixing a number, but about tracking the market dynamically.

The extra +5% is to compensate for the added risk and commitment of ASR compared to holding INF. With ASR, rewards aren’t continuously distributed an participants must stay active, keep their Cloud staked, and claim rewards periodically (e.g., every three months after verification checkpoints). That structure adds risk (volatility, lock-up, delayed access), so the +5% premium makes it worthwhile and appealing for active members.

To me, this way, ASR stays competitive, simple, and fair.

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Ideas for the Passive / Active Rewards (ASR) Model


Objective

The idea behind the Passive / Active Rewards (ASR) model is to maintain active participation of stakers in decision-making related to ASR while introducing a passive rewards component.

Key goals:

  • Make reward distribution more flexible: even participants who miss some votes should still be eligible for a share of rewards.

  • Reduce operational load on the team by introducing two formalized standard proposals, allowing the team to focus only on meaningful non-standard proposals if these occur with ASR season.

  • Formalize the ASR process, making it transparent, predictable, and easier to manage.


ASR season duration

  • Instead of splitting the ASR period into two 3-month quarters, it is proposed to move to 6-month cycles to reduce the workload for the team.

  • A single ASR season lasts 6 months.

  • Reward distribution for each period takes place in the month following the end of the 6-month cycle.


Reward Eligibility Conditions

If it is technically possible to distribute the passive portion of rewards without requiring mandatory participation in voting, the mechanism of standard voting (proposed and explained below) can be completely removed.

However, if participation in voting remains a mandatory requirement for receiving even passive rewards, a more sophisticated Passive / Active reward model should be considered.


Proposed Reward Pool Structure

The total reward pool for each ASR period is divided into two categories:
*(The figures below are illustrative — exact amounts will be determined if/once the ASR mechanism is finalized.)

  1. Passive Share (Minimum Guaranteed Rewards)

    => A pre-agreed amount with a flexible or capped parameter based on effective APR, to avoid excessive reward allocation risks (as seen in the first ASR season).
    *(Specific limitations and mechanisms should be discussed and defined if/once the ASR model is finalized).

    => Example amount: 8M for a 6-month period.

    => Available to all participants who vote at least once during the period — either in a standard or an additional proposal.

    => Reward calculation formula:

    Participant’s reward = ( Participant’s staking ASR season score / Total staking score of all participants) × Passive reward pool

    This means that participating in at least one vote within the 6-month period is enough to qualify for the minimum passive reward.

  2. Active Share (Additional Bonus)

    => Distributed only if there are additional proposals during the period, beyond the two standard ones.

    => Calculated using the ASR formula weighted with non-standard votes:

    Participant’s reward = (SASR_w_n_s_v) / (SUM of ALL participants SASR_w_n_s_v) × Active reward pool,

    where

    SASR_w_n_s_v” - staking ASR season score weighted with the number of active non-standard votes. In other words = Staking ASR season score × by the number of active votes.

    => Example amount: 4M for a 6-month period.

    => If there are no additional proposals, the active bonus is not distributed.


Two Standard Mandatory Votes

To ensure participants have the opportunity to receive the passive share of rewards, it is proposed to introduce two fixed voting checkpoints within each ASR period.
This provides participants with at least two opportunities to cast a vote — at the start and at the end of each period.

Vote #1 — End of Current Period (~last 2 weeks of the ASR season)

Purpose: decide whether to continue ASR.

  • :white_check_mark: Yes → A new period starts.

  • :cross_mark: No → The ASR program ends.

This vote gives the community direct control over the future of the ASR program and allows discontinuation if it’s no longer needed.

Vote #2 — Start of New Period (~first 2 weeks of the ASR season)

Purpose: determine the reward pool size for the next 6-month period.

Participants vote on the rewards allocations: the passive and active allocations.

This means that:
• At the end of the current ASR season, participants vote on whether to continue the ASR program.
• If the decision is positive, then at the start of the next ASR season, participants vote to approve the reward pool size.

This system of standard votes ensures that participants always have two guaranteed voting opportunities per period, allowing them to secure their eligibility for passive rewards, even if no additional proposals are introduced during the season. Moreover, having clear and predefined timeframes for these proposals helps minimize the risk of missing ASR rewards. Additionally, having two standardized and formalized proposals per season should reduce the team’s workload, as these proposals are predetermined, structured, and require minimal additional effort.

Ideally, it would be best to avoid introducing two standard proposals altogether if the passive rewards can be fully integrated and distributed without requiring participants to take part in any voting.


Potential Risks

Formalizing the process through standard votes introduces new risks:

  • Potential conflicts between the team’s position and the community’s decision regarding ASR continuation or reward pool sizing.

  • If the community votes to extend ASR but the team disagrees, this may create a confusing situation.

  • A potential solution is to introduce a team veto mechanism on voting results of standard ASR proposals to prevent critical conflicts, as well as to pre-agree on the amount allocated for ASR before submitting proposals for voting.


Summary

  1. Reward distribution under ASR occurs once every 6 months instead of quarterly.
  2. The Passive / Active model is introduced:
    • Passive share → minimum guaranteed reward for most participants.

    • Active share → bonus rewards for participation in additional proposals.

  3. Two standard proposals per ASR period with clear and predefined timeframes:
    => End of period → decision to continue or terminate ASR;
    => Start of new period → approval of the reward pool size.
  4. If the mechanism of two standard proposals is adopted, it is critical to define conflict mitigation safeguards:
    • Currently, no proposal is brought to a vote without team approval.

    • However, with mandatory standard proposals, refusing to submit them would effectively block passive ASR rewards.

    • Misalignment between the team and community regarding ASR parameters may increase governance risks.


PS: I’m not a fan of introducing unnecessary complexity into the ASR model and believe it would be best to avoid implementing two standard proposals altogether if passive rewards can be fully integrated and distributed without requiring participants to vote. That said, I understand that the mechanism proposed above may feel like an overcomplication, but if this approach helps preserve the ASR model, reduce the team’s workload, and provide meaningful rewards to participants even who miss futarchy votes — then it’s an idea worth considering.

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The biggest issue here is the time required by the team to keep up with the research forum and generate proposals for governance.

Unless you’re suggesting we figure another mechanism for ‘active’ vs ‘passive’ staking, I think governance as we know it is likely going to get faded.

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I like this. I think it’s worth a crack. Getting the community to vote on rewards mechanics seems the correct direction.

I’d shorten the initial period, not because I don’t think 6 months isn’t correct (I think that or quarterly is the right cadence) but because you’d want to get one full iteration out quicker to validate the idea.

You want to throw out some some ideas around rewards conditions as a test in another proposal? I think we need to validate that we can actually come up with a set of reward conditions as a community, even if they’re ultimately not going to be adopted there and then.

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From a place of ignorance — why not treat this like a normal stock? Allow voting for anyone holding CLOUD. Open votes only for matters that benefit from the level of knowledge available to investors. Burn the full community reserve.

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Burning the reserve would be a major waste. We could do so much with that in the future. You basically end all possibilities with that move.

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You’re probably right. It just feels like community reserve is either paying for attention or paying for participation (eg voting). I wonder why the reward can’t just be token price appreciation.

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How do you feel about introducing a kind of “commission”? In other words, tying CLOUD emissions directly to growth benchmarks. As the protocol expands and hits success milestones, more CLOUD would be released to the “stakeholders” (stakers).

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Possibly… what control does the community have over that outcome (to justify earning beyond price appreciation)?

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Maybe the better way to say that is… What value does the community add to those milestones?

Community reserves are interesting from a basic (likely over simplified) view — when distributed… market cap increases temporarily, longer-term holders get rewarded, but all else equal … token price ultimately decreases unless the distribution added value.

Over any reasonable period of time, the price chart will seem muted. So for outsiders looking to get in, the historical price is a deterrent. The price may be down 20% but long-term holders could potentially be up by 10% due to distributions alone.

I’m not sure I see the point without clear value added in return for the distributions. Sorry — Captain Obvious, I know.

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Good points… Captain Obvious :laughing: Not obvious enough for me to see before my comment :folded_hands:t4:

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TLDR; CLOUD should also add Revenue Buyback & Rebase as part of next ASR update, here’s why:

Just want to chime in here on what we do next on ASR… Unsure where to post it so I think this should be part of the consideration.

With the input from Andrew, I’d like to also bring up the idea that toly posted on X:

I do think that the vision should be value accrual into CLOUD in the form of an LST, which we ALREADY have at the moment. As Toly mentioned that I agree on, I think CLOUD should distribute buybacks to stakers instead of burning it outright.

Buyback n share outright is not the best option however, a rebase whereby revenue is used to buyback CLOUD from open market and deposited into sCLOUD is something I agree on.

Essentially the longer a sCLOUD staker stake, the more cloud revenue from business comes and the more you hold, it aids in increasing demand while keeply supply check in place to ensure that you are long-term aligned.

Just like how we rebase INF using SOL rewards to increase value over time, we should increase CLOUD value via sCLOUD utilising revenue buybacks.

How does ASR come into play?

At it’s current iteration, I believe that we had too much ASR being distributed to users. Though I do believe that CLOUD should be used for growth initiatives, it shouldn’t be used as a way to incentivise stakers to stake. Tho a small % would be okay - if it aligns with SOL inflation or even less.

With the ASR currently, Revenue should be used to incentivise users to stake instead of more emission of sCLOUD into the hands of new users. I believe rebasing sCLOUD as a form of return for the risk of staking is worth it.

That way, users who are loyal will definitely feel the rewards as their sCLOUD increases as revenue increases from Sanctum as a Protocol.

On the other hand, I believe that CLOUD ASR emissions should be used to incentivise NEW campaigns that make users want to buy and stake CLOUD, which could be integrated in the Sanctum Loyalty Layer, which I agree on.

I really do like @pbear ‘s suggestion:

As @andrewsaul mentioned, it’s definitely worth a crack at the mechanisms in place..

All in all hoping that we would get value growth within CLOUD as Sanctum scales. ASR to be used for growth intiatives, revenue to be used to generate value for long-term aligned stakers.

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I’m broadly aligned with pausing ASR in its current form—200%+ effective APY over six months was nice tho. Now to my main point: futarchy was confusing for many and skewed toward people willing to actively trade CLOUD just to participate. That’s not the same thing as broad, legitimate governance. I fear, a loyalty layer, will have similar ethical constraints. I hastily produced a new proposal: Proposal: Build Sanctum’s Deliberation Layer outlining a better idea. Due to the time constraints (the discussion already broke out), I could not go into as much detail and arguments as I wanted. As a political theorist I am an expert in the norms and ethics of participation and I am happy to share my knowledge and take part in discussions regarding the topic.

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this would create situations in which people can “buy” decisions

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I understand this, but at the same time, if the team want community governance and not team dictatorship, that is the pill to swallow. Let’s call it proof-of-work for earnestness. In any case, I think I have a solution for this, which would mean slight updates to this research forum. Basing developments on merit of arguments, not “clout” or bags

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If someone is inclined to “buy” decisions, then the current model is equally a problem.

Someone can simply stake 1 SCLOUD and bid “millions” during futarchy to drive the decision. If I understand the current model correctly — vote size is not constrained by amount staked. It’s driven by how strongly people want to “buy” the decision (or sell it).

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I agree. I am not pro futarchy at all. I am pro deliberation and consensus. That is imo the only earnest and ethical form of governance. I’ve made a proposal, where I share some of my ideas.

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