CLOUD-004: Should Sanctum build a Sanctum Mobile App (“Wonder”)? [FAILED]

[andrewsaul]

building a mobile app is very large investment of resources. Mobile, by it’s nature, requires a lot more support, so into the calculations of the core development and design work you need to add an additional, and significant, investment into support.

So taking that into account; what is the net new user onboard you hope to achieve from mobile?
I see a lot of comments about how much crypto UX sucks.

But that’s not true. Vector.fun, Moonshot, Phantom, the Jupiter app, Backpack etc.. these are all good UX. On mobile.
Robinhood, Coinbase etc… are good UX. On mobile.
You will build a worse UX than all of these. Least for the first handful of iterations. But you’ll likely build a good enough UX, however this can’t be the reason users download a Sanctum app.
Because the mobile browser experience inside many of these wallets, for Sanctum, is pretty decent now.
So Sanctum is essentially on mobile and it’s pretty decent. The more you direct people to use Sanctum via the mobile wallet browser the more those browsers will recommend Sanctum to users. It’s a positive feedback loop.

Plenty of good, popular, crypto mobile apps incorporate portfolio features and staking (including SOL staking) in their UX. Coinbase, Metamask, Solflare etc.. all have staking sections in their apps. Granted they’re not very built out, but those already exist, have done for a while and… they’re not very popular or prominent.
If users aren’t much interested in staking in some of the most popular crypto mobile apps now, why would they go to the effort of downloading an entirely new app just to see SOL staking?

Mobile app is a great idea only if you have a proven product to deploy via it.
Right now I can’t see that you do.

I think building an app is a mistake as it stands.
You first need to figure out what you would deliver in that app
THEN deliver via the existing web app
THEN refine it for the mobile browser experience in wallets (e.g., Phantom, Backpack, Solflare etc…)

IF you get significant traction AND you are hitting the limits of what a mobile
browser can deliver
THEN look into building your own app.

[yyigit.sol]

if we think long term, profiles will be better than wallets yes. I appreciate the revenue creating opportunities and will always support the team for their efforts. But I’d like to ask a crucial question. What is the timeline, how are you budgeting this and will you need to spend money for that or this will be a experimental app for early times?

And I have some concerns about the timeline because we still didn’t have shipped products like Cloud Card and Wonderland S2. I really wonder why nobody talks/asks about them on the wednesday’s meetings. Just need to know why we can’t still get Cloud Card and S2, because their deadline was end of the 2024 or q1 2025 but we already finished the Q1 and last 3-4 months there was no mentions delivered from the team. So while addressing new products I also want to know where is the previous announced products?

After that I will definitely Vote Yes wout doubt, we need learn whats the timeline and seriousness about this proposal.

[Aro]

They said during the call that held today that developing this app won’t affect their plans for all the other products

[n8tr0n]

I echo some of your thoughts. Was also thinking of the app store approvals, which includes regulatory & compliance risks. Crypto and DeFi apps face heavy scrutiny from Google Play and Apple App Store. Many DeFi apps get delisted or banned for violating financial regulations. Again, workarounds like Progressive Web Apps (PWA) may be a viable alternative with virtually all the same functionality.

[nucky]

I have a feeling they have some ideas for a competitive edge… but can’t share or they’ll lose their edge…

[amensch]

I think we are trying to tackle too many things, and an app isnt the solution to our key problem. How do we get more people to buy LSTs?

Not going to argue the point about mobile being the way transactions will occur. But I will disagree with building an app with so many goals.

I think we should keep it simple. Make an on ramp that integrate into one or several existing wallets.

Similar to how Jupiter integrated Ape into their wallets and user experiences. We should create something that they (Wallets) can hook into.

Let the Wallet Developers fight it out for users.

So Id vote against a wallet. Id suggest change our project to developing an onramp to LST markets for all wallets to access.

[coletacripto]

I love the Wonder idea! An app focused on simplicity, automatic yields, and community could be the perfect for onboarding new users. My concern is the opportunity cost — I suggest a lean MVP with a killer feature to test before scaling

[Lucky]

Developing a mobile app to reach out to more people seems a bit too far fetched. Apart from phantom wallet, i dont see any additional pull into the ecosystem. Investors would have to do 2 jumps, cex → solana → sanctum, those who came to sanctum are already in the ecosystem. To bridge this gap and make it more friendly, certain solutions are required. Education? Reputation? Guarantee a safe environment?

There’s also a second added block that is the uncertainty of crypto. Which decentralise vs centralise comes into play.

However one of the monetization method is advertisement for other apps. One other thing i think a mobile app would be great is stats on the LSTs and status updates all in one place. Gives it a more legitimacy feel and assurance that its managed which would set it apart from meme coins etc.

[Bizarrebra]

Adoption is key for every product. On top of that, this is not something that has to be pushed to the team, but they DO wanna do it, so… yeah, that’s a big YES for me.

[JaunePomme]

Love the idea but as I mentioned before, too early for this stage.

I think we should finalize the web3 product first then make a mobile one.
Once Cloud is successful enough on Web, it could go to Mobile.
Jupiter did one after becoming…Jupiter. (And.. is it really working for them ?)
I think Cloud is already having trouble to market itself as a protocol on the web space, to market it then on the mobile space for newcomers.. I don’t think it would work.

Layer3 wanted as well to become the bridge for new users and makes it educational, difficult.
Cloud wants to do the same but through Mobile, I think finishing the product first, then scaling would be the best. We need a strong demand before talking about scaling on a different space.

[euko]

all is suggestion , and my humble opinion
would love to see implementation of sanctum into different web3 apps

features we need to look for

• 30days not using app , most devices suggest to delete the app
• gotta come up with activities to keep users on the app and enjoy it while using
• solution to help users onboard more users
• if cloudeAi is a thing what if that ai be a navigating tool for people on app
• using ai to bring top notch news for crypto
• or educational content

vast majority of people in web3 are here to earn something
many games in web3 tbh is not fun , using app as a bridge to onboard and partnerup with mini games can also be super helpful .

best regard

[Communitytroll]

Love the idea but I think we’re way too small for shipping a quality app and I’m afraid the cost will be way higher than the onboarding, there’s also a lot of issues just to get it into the App Store..
Sorry for the pessimistic response

[Riceracc00n]

I love the point that it is not something that is being pushed onto them..

It is something they WANT to do!

I hope as a community, we allow them to explore this opportunity - they have a vision - and I’m betting on the cracked team

I trust that they’ll stop developing the mobile app if they realize it may not work out in CLOUD’s favor

[Riceracc00n]

I do not think a timeline was given for the mobile app project

They are not asking for community funds to develop the app (in this proposal)

They mentioned in the proposal that there would be beta testing for the product before they think about distributing to the broader crypto audience

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They mentioned wonderland S2 on the most recent forecast - no date was ever promised for S2 - it’ll happen when the team thinks that the time is right

Team thinks S2 needs to be like 5x better than S1 to be beneficial for CLOUD. S2 would also mean emitting more cloud into circulation - it would really need to benefit cloud to do this as it is not something that can be undone if its a fail

Not sure about cloud card - i do wonder about that - would be sweet!!

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I personally see this proposal as the team asking the community for permission to allocate SOME of the team’s bandwidth towards looking into developing a mobile app.

I think the opportunity cost portion of the proposal reads way worse - it was clarified on the call that the core part of the business will still be taken care of regardless, as not 100% of the team will be allocated towards the mobile app venture

As I see it, FP and co. have a vision, and I’m betting ON the team, not against them

[Riceracc00n]

Jup mobile is awesome! Super easy to onboard people without having to go through a CEX - and the wallet works great.

Layer3 made learning easy. I came into web3 a complete noob and using L3 taught me how to navigate on-chain. I think they are coming out with their own wallet too now lol

I think the proposal is more of the team asking if the cloudfam supports them looking into developing a mobile app, and I trust that the team will scrap the project if they realize its not going to be beneficial for CLOUD - no community funds are being spent either

[Bizarrebra]

I apologize in advance because this is gonna be a bit of a rant.

I feel like many people here are suffering from what I like to call the “new manager syndrome”. You know, it’s like when you have a new manager at work, and they feel like they HAVE TO say something against. For real.

The team wants to do this, they do. They could have simply done it, or started, like they did with Wonderland, or a bunch of other things, but since we have the new governance system, they felt like they should run this by us - big mistake, I think.

All of a sudden, there are people here who don’t want a mobile app. I mean, I can’t tell in how many projects I’ve been where a mobile app wasn’t on the roadmap, and people kept asking “when mobile app?”. Now, we’re having a mobile app, and people are saying they don’t want a mobile app. Seriouly, tho?

As someone said, nobody from the team has said that this is gonna be expensive and is gonna impact ASR or whatnow. Nobody has said either, that this is gonna slow down other aspects of the roadmap - actually, quite the opposite. This is something additional that the team is excited about, and they think it’s gonna attract new users. Every project has a mobile app now - yet we don’t want it. OK.

I bet my salary that if the proposal was called “Remove the mobile app from the roadmap” probably a lot of the same people would be criticizing that we won’t have a mobile app when everybody does and yadda yadda yadda…

Please, don’t feel the urge to criticize every idea the team shares. Just think of it from the other side - imagine someone who’s criticizing every single thing you propose, most of the time for the most banal reasons - it’s exhausting and demotivating.

A bit of insight

This below are the stats for the last 28 days on the Discord server of another crypto project, where I’ve been admin for 2 years. We launched on February 2023.

Every single month has been like this, that is, almost the same amount of people connecting from mobile than they do from desktop.

My point: we have as many users on mobile as we do on desktop, if not more. I dare say that every single project shares this. How on Earth can we say that we don’t need a mobile app when a third of the users are connecting from mobile? It’s a niche worth exploring, it’s where the users are at. From a merely business standpoint, it doesn’t make any sense that we don’t even try to explore that option, and shut it down at inception completely instead. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Anyway, end of rant. I had to get this off my chest, because every single vote proposal, I see a lot of people trying to undermine every idea with truly vague logic. Don’t hate me - we’re all on the same boat, I just think we should try to be more supportive and collaborative with the team that built all this, instead of seeing things with critical eyes.

No one knows what the future will bring us, but one thing is for sure: the best projects are those that keep building stuff non-stop and keep shipping consistently.

[Luk4]

Imho you are maybe being a bit too harsh . The opinions are being expressed by ppl from different realities, backgrounds and cultures, and predominantly in text. One should never take them at face value, but instead sift through them capturing the essence. Through this vote the team asked for feedback and they are receiving it, which is important. I personally tapped on like 70% of the comments here?

Re: the alternative question you suggested, I have been thinking what the discussion would be like if the question to the community was “Should we work on Wonderland S2 or a new app?”

Thx for sharing that pie chart – that’s a very helpful insight

[Luk4]

Hi fam, thank you so much for sharing the updates from the calls. For someone (like me) who has no time to hunt the info across different posts or watch long videos, this is gold. I really appreciate you doing this

[amensch]

If the value is mobile, why not create something that all mobile wallets can use to give their users access to LSTs. Instead of creating a wallet, which will compete for others to get people to buy LSTs.

I dont think anyone is arguing if transactions are occuring on mobile or not.

Also, has anyone done an analysis on are users that would even think about purchasing LSTs as an investment the people that would use mobile devices.

I believe the conversation is moving towards a mobile app as the topic, not the topic being a solution to increasing Holders of LSTs.

Cant just make decisions on heres a solutions, now lets see which problem is it solving.

Maybe. I missed something somewhere and someone can guide me on answers to my question, which problem is a Mobile App designed to solve?

[JaunePomme]

The issue is what would the mobile give more than just going on sanctum through the phantom wallet app for instance ?
And it costs time and funds, while the S2 isn’t out yet, not enough educational ressources for newcomers, job’s not done imo. Mobile app is a big project. Difficult to have another long time where there is nothing happening on the protocol, that would probably kill the token.
Needs a bigger team as well prolly.