monthly distrubution will lead to lot of administrative work plus certain months , there may not be a vote etc
1 Like
Futarchy for me is a new concept (and i believe for the most people), i read some articles and the posts/videos you guys made on x lately but i have no practical experience.
So i am here to openly talk about my concerns and questions.
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if i understood right, the CLOUD-0 proposal will not have any staking in place yet, that means we are going to participate with our āspotā $CLOUD $USDC by buying or selling the token? If more people buy via this action than sell then the proposal will get approved? if more people sell via this action it will get rejected?
How is that different to buying and selling the token at Jupiter for example?
Does only the interaction via the specific program count for the vote? Or all global sells/buys? -
CLOUD-1: to vote on this proposal, the same methodology will be applied (i guess?). If it gets rejected we go on as before, if it gets approved; taking part at this mechanism will only be possible via staking $CLOUD and receiving $sCloud?
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Active staking rewards (ASR):
āVoters would get a pro rata share of CLOUD equal to your overall staking score (staked CLOUD amount * time) multiplied by the number of votes you participated in. To be counted as participation, one must have a minimum trading volume of at least 10 USDC.ā
Does this mean that a whale voting with lets say 100.000 $USDC gets the same rewards as a user that votes with 100 $USDC if both have participated in the same amount of votes and have the same voting score? How does the voting score increase? Please provide some more detailed information about that, if possible also with examples. -
50M $CLOUD allocated for the first 6 months: what is the plan for after this 6 months? We all know that time flies fast, what is the long term plan for ASR?
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60 days unlocking period: IMO this is a veeeery long time, in 2 months so much can change and i am not talking about the project itself but also about the macro of web3. I understand and i also agree that staking and participating in governance isnt about making money BUT we have to be honest and transparent; We are most likely in a bull market and this will end (maybe in 3 months maybe in 6 or maybe in a year).
I know that some of the questions are not very clear, but thats how i have things in my mind at this moment after reading the proposals and the thread on X.
In general its a very interesting idea and methodology, nevertheless i feel that its a complicated system (maybe i am wrong because i havent tried it out yet) and thats how other people feel (imo).
Meanwhile every project has its own governance and introduces several mechanisms, can a normie be part of all this without worrying about several parameters in the background?
I hope the UI will be intuitive and self explaining.
13 Likes
100% yes. Looking forward to this. Major step in the evolution of Sanctum.
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I think lockup period seems right, and ASR rewards are also great. ASR distribution shouldnāt be lest then 3 months. Quaterly distribution is great option people will stay here for long and can learn,engage and build connection with our product.
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Iām excited to participate in governance with all of you! I think the ASR idea is great! ASR combined with an incentive (multiplier) for SEASON 2 will give the token solid initial utility.
Regarding the lock-up period, I found it a bit too long. I would prefer it to be the same as Kamino and Jup (30 days).
Other than that, Iām excited and canāt wait!
7 Likes
Ngl using this like itās regular English made me laugh
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Unfortunately, as a $CLOUD holder, I have to express my concern and disappointment, and will excercise my complain by not using this voting system that the team has chosen. I canāt believe you guys have decided to use Futarchy. In simple terms, it incentivizes trading over making a good decision for the project.
Iāve asked this question several times on Discord, on X, during the X Spaceā¦ and nobody, literally NOBODY, has been able to address it, but Iāll try again:
Can anybody explain why on this video (Trading Proposals | MetaDAO) where one of the MetaDAO team members explains how voting works, the guy votes against a proposal that is beneficial for the project, just because he wants to make a quick buck? (vid TL;DR: jump to 1:36)
It blows my mind that the video is still up, and they havenāt created a better one. Theyāre explaining how everything works, and the guy is voting against the team proposal (letās all assume that when somethingās proposed by the team, the positive outcome of the votation is supposed to be beneficial). Itās not even about voting YES or NO - itās about how the guy isnāt even talking about voting YES or NO to the proposal, but he explains everything in terms of price and making a profit.
I said it then, and Iāll say it again: mixing trading for profit with making good rational decisions is in direct conflict. Itās just human nature.
This said, I hope Iām wrong, but Iāve been involved in a couple projects before where the voting was done on Futarchy, and it was clear that people were consistently voting trading just to make a profit regardless of what that trade involved in terms of a vote.
9 Likes
Oh yes! Thatās the way to go.
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- I think that the lockup period is too long and will put people off of wanting to try out the governance. Futarchy is new to a lot of people and combining that with the 2 month lockup seems like a barrier for people that may just want experience it before deciding if they like it or not. I think the max people would be okay with is a 1 month lock up period
- ASR amount seems fine to me
- Perhaps every 2 months or quarterly. Monthly or after every vote would just add extra work for you guys
- I havenāt participated in Futarchy, and so far from what I have seen I am not a fan. But I am willing to try it out to give it a chance. In voting are we loosing money or is it just gaining extra rewards for voting correctly with some funds turning to USDC and some to sCloud? I guess even after watching the videos I still donāt understand. This just seems like more ways to make taxable events for me haha
Though I will give it a shot. Best way to learn something is by doing
6 Likes
Absolutely yes, CLOUD looks wild if you do your DYOR. Looking in the proyectā¦ looks amazing, his tokenomics also feel pretty great, stacking CLOUD would be a super step into the future!
2 Likes
something that is not clear to me, if we vote and the unstake we can still keep voting with the vested part? like in jup if you unstake you can still vote but with less weight during the unstaking period
3 Likes
In my opinion, it should not be a locked staking, people should be able to take out all their cloud whenever they want and sell if they donāt want to, but you guys can āpunishā them if they unstake, give them a clear warning that if they unstake they will not get ANY rewards, imo, that sounds better than locking the tokens for a long time without having any choice and just waiting for them to unlock and dump them for whatever reason, if someone wants to leave and sell he should be able to do so, but he will also accept the fact that he is not getting any rewards.
I canāt give an opinion on if the asr is too large or not, it really depends from how many wallets will be there and how fairly it will be shared, but it sounds just right to me.
For the rewards, people should be able to visualize how much theyāll be getting if they keep it staked, every week, and how much theyāll lose if they ever try to unstake.
When the person tries to unstake, it should say something like āIf you unstake, you will lose your rewards that is equivalent to *** CLOUDā
This will incentivize people to keep their cloud staked, but out of their own free will, no whatever number of days lockup, but it has to be clear, even if you stake for 50 days, if you unstake you donāt get ANYTHING, you really have to insist on this, and if they still try to sell thatās okay, itāll reset their rewards and they will be able to stake again and start from scratch, if they ever want to do so after.
Iām not a fan of people holding people hostage of a staking system or whatever, itās literally a time ticking bomb, yes, they could dump it after the lockup, but imo thereās less of a chance that they will do that, and tbh theyāll do exactly the same even if it aint locked if they really wanted after the ālockupā period, you guys not forcing people into locking forcefully their money will bring a bullish sentiment overall, push you into working āharderā so that people really donāt feel like selling, and will bring a good community sentiment, with no obligation or whatever, people will stake and hold because they WANT to do that, iāve seen a lot of projects where on discords people they just say āwaiting for that unstaking to dump my tokenā, thatās not what we should have here, if you want to leave fine go ahead, even if it will hurt the PA, it is bound to happen, the sooner the better.
4 Likes
60 days? mmmm. If you have in mind a similar to JUP voting power staking, 30 days is clearly a maximum, in a bear AS in a bull run. The amount of cloud is huge btw, will be nice.
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TBH 60 days feels awful long in todays environment. Maybe we could settle for 30 days like bigger brother in JUP did? I have been participating in JUP DAO since their launch and despite having only 30 day lock up time, I did not unlock any. Having option to back off if some life events force me to do so is a good option.
2 Likes
Obvious yes here. ASR was amazing for jup and is one of the best ways to both foster engagement and reward real users / holders.
1 Like
I have a suggestion regarding the lock-up mechanism.
There could be two options based on decision:
- Early Unstaking with Penalty: If a user chooses to unstake early, they forfeit a portion of the remaining locked amount, calculated as a percentage based on the number of days passed (e.g., %/60 days). The forfeited $CLOUD would then be redistributed into the rewards pool for other stakers.
- Gradual Unlocking (Vesting Model): This option works similarly to Jupiterās LFG airdrop, where a portion of staked $CLOUD unlocks daily once the unstaking function is executed, without users forfeiting the rest of their stake. Essentially, it would function as a vesting schedule for unstaked $CLOUD.
This approach would justify a full 60-day lock-up period while still providing flexibility. If someone urgently needs funds, they could access some of their stake, with or without a penalty, depending on implemented option above.
5 Likes
60 days lockes period is too long. Probably make people hesitate to stake. 30 days sound fair enough.
50M ASR for 6 months is extremely good. But how you can sustain it for another 6 months. Detailed explanation is important
Distribution of ASR should be monthly especially if it is distributed as sCloud.
My biggest concern is about forcing people to buy cloud for every proposal. I think DAO hug majority people who are willing to participate so there should at least 2 options.
O1 ā Staker who participate the voting and want to buy $cloud should get ASR and $cloud from lower prices
O2 ā Staker who only want to participate the voting should get only ASR.
Maybe it sounds hybrid version of conventional and new method, But be sure it allows much more people to join our DAO. more options broader participation.
4 Likes
I am looking forward for staking Clouds. However, the lockup time is too long. I think 30 days lockup time would be better than a long lockup time.
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It was mentioned in Discord but Nosana has a staking model where the user selects the stake period. In that case, longer commitments meant higher APY. Some folks could lock in for a year and some could for two weeks. I kind of liked the flexibility. For CLOUD that could mean higher ASR rates for folks who are more long term-aligned, and other folks could still participate in governance with a bit of a hedge (shorter unlock period with lower ASR rate).
There is a lot of concern about a 60 day lockup being a ālong timeā, that feels a little short sighted to me if we are talking about the life of a protocol (would we be having this conversation in a bear market?). I think the suggestions @pwnage made are good ways to mitigate the discomfort with the 60 day period (if we go with that).
5 Likes
Last year when $Jup started staking, many ppl were saying 30 days to unstake was too long. Same ppl if asked today likely would be ok with 60 days or more.
60 days for $Cloud seems fine
5 Likes